So sick to death of this indifferent 'walk on by' society

[Lencoboy]

Len you have to ask yourself, is it worth my energy getting upset about, you would really hate living in American Cities where there is tagging (graffiti) everywhere, it's illegal here as well, and if it's a shop or business, it's the business owner who has to hire someone to paint over it, if it's city buildings the city has to pay for it, but the cops are more worried about is the guy that is holding a gun to his wife and kids going to hand over said weapon before anyone gets killed, is the narcan going to work on the teen how just overdosed on a drug or am i going to have to notify the family, is that drunk that I am chasing going to hit another car before I can get them to pull over, is that person holding a gun on me going to fire on me before I can talk them down. It's not that people don't care, it's there really are more important things to worry about than someone spray painting The older generation grew up with our moms smoking in the car, in our faces, around us, we used to live in a society where it was normal to smoke on planes, in hotels, restaurants what have you and don't think anything of it either. Control only what you can control, was the mother in the wrong for smoking in front of her children in the car where it is illegal, yes it is, does it warrant you reporting her? No, now if she were drinking and drunk then yes report her and prevent her from leaving.

You're certainly correct in the sense that graffiti tagging is a widespread issue pretty much the world over, and has been for donkeys years now, though a lot of tags tend to look rather homogeneous and samey in style and appearance/presentation worldwide nowadays, and have increasingly become that way for at least the past 25 years or so, unlike in the past (even well into the 2000s in my area in particular) it wasn't uncommon to see tags that read slogans like 'X and Y woz' ere' written in plain straightforward handwriting unique to the tagger, though I suppose the demise of that in the UK since the late 2000s could be largely attributed to the rise of smartphones and social media during the time that has since elapsed. Let's face it, such graffiti tags in public toilet facilities that were once ubiquitous now seem to be a much rarer sight, especially in the 2 train stations I frequent the most.

As for a lot of the gun crime Stateside that you mentioned, I guess most of us here in the UK should be grateful that, while it does occur in some areas every now and then, it's still much rarer here than in many other countries around the world (absolutely no gloating nor America-bashing intended from me).

[.Poppy.]

I don't always love graffiti, either, but agree with others that it's probably small potatoes compared to other issues. I wonder, too, where someone would draw the line between problematic graffiti (aside from foul language) and artful graffiti or even a mural on the side of a building. We have a tagged train car that has been parked here for awhile that was sprayed with "MMIW" and there are people who complain, but it's an important message, certainly to whomever put it there, and I don't think it should just go away.

I also wonder about the people who created cave paintings and petroglyphs - were they disliked in their day too? How many years must go by before it's considered historic or art? I went into a cave (Mammoth Cave, I think) and there is writing on the ceiling that is about 100 years old; tourists made it with smoke when they went through. People still think it's still pretty tasteless as it's a national park, but I wonder if in another 100 or 200 or so years if people will go through there and be a lot less upset by the names and more curious and impressed.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm sure you've posted stuff before on here about council workers allegedly 'swinging the lead' who should have actually been dealing with fly-tipping incidents.

But like I said in my previous post, I reckon a lot of people now feel discouraged from visiting their local tops because they've now become such fortified places run by 'little Hitler' jobsworths who seem so up themselves and love to read out the Riot Act!

In fact, this one arsy barsteward of a worker at Lichfield tip (the closest one to us here in Staffs) was quite rude and abrupt towards my dad last year when we innocently drove onto the site, totally unaware of the new restrictions on site access and use of the facility. He was basically asking for some kind of abuse from certain members of the general public who are generally much less patient than both myself and my dad.

Also I'm rather surprised there's been no reports of any violent disturbances at said tip since those sudden changes there last year, as it was a perfect flash point for vicious tempers to fray between both irate members of the general public and irate staff there.

Yeah, I bet I have. Its was frustrating taking photos showing how to find the location to later find they lied about clearing it or can't find something next to a bridge. I started adding arrows to some. I think the record was 4 reports for the same rubbish to get them to pull their finger out.

I know what you mean about the tip. In our case its seeing 4 workers sitting around a table doing nothing.

If you have the energy to commit to campaigning to clean up it is always an option. The root cause is very hard to tackle as it's not about education but not being an ar5ehole.

[Lencoboy]

Yeah, I bet I have. Its was frustrating taking photos showing how to find the location to later find they lied about clearing it or can't find something next to a bridge. I started adding arrows to some. I think the record was 4 reports for the same rubbish to get them to pull their finger out.

I know what you mean about the tip. In our case its seeing 4 workers sitting around a table doing nothing.

If you have the energy to commit to campaigning to clean up it is always an option. The root cause is very hard to tackle as it's not about education but not being an ar5ehole.

Regarding the tip thing, there seems to be something a bit unnerving about the situation there where there's this new sense of 'militarisation' and 'power-madness' which was already there before at the tips in neighbouring North Warwickshire, but now sadly also adopted by the Staffordshire tips which were previously more laid back, friendlier and easy going towards users, but are now inevitably alienating them instead.

I also have a hatred of airports nowadays for very similar reasons, especially after an unpleasant experience at Manchester Airport in 2002 involving extremely rude and foul-mouthed stewards there acting like Sgt Majors towards us passengers, complete with F-bombs (see the thread 'Airport anxiety' for more details of said experience), who were acting like they were either in the army or classical brutal nightclub bouncers revelling in aggression and confrontation; sometimes for seemingly no apparent reason.

But as far as I'm concerned, in many cases, confrontation begets confrontation.

[Lencoboy]

I don't think a lot of the serial graffitists who sometimes tag in our area are actually from our area per se, as I'm sure I've seen those same initials from the taggers who defaced the bridge near us a few days ago in various other locations around the (West) Midlands region, including in neighbouring Lichfield and some time last year on the side of the M42 somewhere by Solihull.

I'm pretty sure they've even tagged up by Burton too (somewhere on the side of the A38).

My theory is it seems that a lot of these serial 'taggers' seem to go 'on tour' across various random locations. Also I think there's a greater tendency these days for criminals in general to travel a lot more in pursuit of their offences, unlike in the past when they usually seemed to concentrate more on their own immediate towns/cities, or even suburbs.

[Lencoboy]

I don't think a lot of the serial graffitists who sometimes tag in our area are actually from our area per se, as I'm sure I've seen those same initials from the taggers who defaced the bridge near us a few days ago in various other locations around the (West) Midlands region, including in neighbouring Lichfield and some time last year on the side of the M42 somewhere by Solihull.

I'm pretty sure they've even tagged up by Burton too (somewhere on the side of the A38).

My theory is it seems that a lot of these serial 'taggers' seem to go 'on tour' across various random locations. Also I think there's a greater tendency these days for criminals in general to travel a lot more in pursuit of their offences, unlike in the past when they usually seemed to concentrate more on their own immediate towns/cities, or even suburbs.

Funnily enough me and my dad were driving through the southernmost part of town yesterday and I noticed some recent tags bearing the line 'B44', which is a potential clue to the area these phantom taggers targeting our area must hail from (possibly somewhere around South Birmingham).

I thought a lot of this 'postcode war' lark had petered out a few years back but it seems like it's still alive and well in this particular instance. Could also possibly be County Liners doubling up as serial taggers outside of their own manor.

Back in the 90s (and before) most of those tagging in our area were the local yob element (ditto for most other towns and cities) and many of those local yobs of yesteryear would have probably turned vigilantes and chased a lot of these outside taggers and/or County Liners out of town, even if they routinely indulged in likewise criminal practices 'from within'.

Just my personal perception.

[Lencoboy]

Funnily enough me and my dad were driving through the southernmost part of town yesterday and I noticed some recent tags bearing the line 'B44', which is a potential clue to the area these phantom taggers targeting our area must hail from (possibly somewhere around South Birmingham).

I thought a lot of this 'postcode war' lark had petered out a few years back but it seems like it's still alive and well in this particular instance. Could also possibly be County Liners doubling up as serial taggers outside of their own manor.

Back in the 90s (and before) most of those tagging in our area were the local yob element (ditto for most other towns and cities) and many of those local yobs of yesteryear would have probably turned vigilantes and chased a lot of these outside taggers and/or County Liners out of town, even if they routinely indulged in likewise criminal practices 'from within'.

Just my personal perception.

Just to put the record straight, while the presence of things like graffiti tags can often give a false impression of any area, our borough isn't actually ridden with vicious criminal gangs per se, which may often seem so at face value.

Ditto for neighbouring Lichfield and also Burton, who have also suffered various episodes of tagging from 'outsiders' over the past year or so.