Your Social Anxiety

[mico]

Sal

Thanks for the reply, you have a good point about exposure there.

Apart from my overloading inquisitive mind, I'm doing ok, thanks.


Tracy

It is very difficult understanding people's problems, especially when they arn't clear like physical ailments. But I believe that by trying to understand other's problems, you can understand more of your own.

It's interesting that your fiance hasn't always been this way though.


Tiger

Great post!

It's interesting what you say about creating social anxiety. I know I've always had what you could call an 'avoidance personality' to some extent. Not sure if that was inbuilt in me, or whether it is just something that I've learnt from an early age, that's it's a whole lot easier to run! It's unfortunate that over 20 years down the line I'm just learning that I've been wrong about that for all these years. I got quite a bit of re-learning to do!

Questions still remain as to where the avoidance comes from though. Although that's a very big question, and I guess it's probably already rigourously debated between professionals the world over. Reflecting on my own memories though, I would say that it was maybe possible that I could have gone the other way, although I believe the 'avoidance' side of my personality was the stronger force, and won in the end. It is my belief that both, genetics, and learned behaviour, are big influences on your personality and what you become. I know many scientists will only argue for either one case or another, but I think this is a perfectly logical assumption to include both.

Which then brings you to neural pathways. It has been proven that prolonged activity within individuals can influence the structure of their brains over time. In which case the question of whether it is genetics or learned behaviour becomes more irrelevant, to a degree they are one and the same. The outcome of the physical brain structure is the same regardles. But it can be changed.

I know I said exposure didn't work for me before, but I quickly brushed past that and didn't really explain any of it. Exposing myself to people doesn't work (that doesn't sound right does it [:O] , you know what I mean ). All I'm saying is, just this type of exposure itself isn't enough, you need to interact with people, you need to overcome those fears of speaking, acting, etc, in front of people. So I guess there is an avenue for improvement, you just need to dig a little deeper to find it.

Your questions of inferiority are something that I've thought a lot about too, and has certainly affected me considerably. Growing up, everyone was an authority figure to me. All of your examples I can relate to. It's something that I have improved quite a lot over the past few years, but it is deep rooted and I still have quite a way to go. I have no doubt that this is a big influence on SA in many people. Unlike you though, I don't think I could pin-point where this inferiority complex comes from in my case. Just a thought, but maybe it has something to do with avoidance again, avoiding responsibility?

Thanks for the reply


Andrew

I think when I related SA to GAD I left quite a lot out of their too. If you keep reading my posts you'll get used to it , try not to look into that too much, It's just that I really don't have another way to explain it (words often fail me - apologies for any confusion).

OCD is an interesting take on it, and something I've often looked into myself. Again though, OCD can be another one with no clear defenitions. We label all of these different types of anxiety, yet often they are not all that different from each other and are all related in some form or other. I've posted about my obsessive thoughts on here before, and the general conclusion was that it isn't OCD. But at the same time, I certainly have obsessive thinking patterns. I think one that is probably common within social phobics is the obsessive thinking that goes on after speaking to people. You go over conversations again and again. Did you

[Meg]

''I also feel like I'm being judged

people are watching him and he feels stupid

'he doesn't look right for this shop'!

my insecurity with talking to others

I can't get rid of the base feelings of inferiority''

The words have been used in some of the above comments but I think (IMHO) that they should flash out in Neon - self confidence and self esteem. However I don't think it always applies to the person as a whole but to just a part of them.

Many people who have SA are extremely successful and highly talented in other ways - scientists, IT, authors, composers, artists, researchers, inventers etc

They know they are good at what they do and have terrific self assurance and self confidence that they can do whatever but feel extremely nervous about sharing or being part of a shared team dream as they do not 'believe' they have what it takes.

Often they are self limiters as they believe their own suppositions on their capabilities and thus shy away from anything that expands their circle and so it goes on. They also have distorted thoughts on how others view them and as these are mainly kept to themself they are easy to self fuel as there are few rational realities accepted as they are not discussed openly.

Just as with any other fear - fear of people is easy to start to avoid and then it gets harder and harder. It is driven by your inernal dialogue of ' they're looking at me - wonder what they're thinking - I bet its not good , I know I presented badly and all red and flushed. I'll never be good at this .

I would really encourage anyone in this situation to just for one day or even hour at first to really listen to what you're saying to yourself and report back here what you thought and how that 'made' you respond..

Mico 'Great piece of writing' ' are you being serious ?'
Um hello - Yes !!

One day your self limiting beliefs might dissipate enough to allow yourself to believe us !!

Meg
www.overcominganxiety.co.uk
You cannot conquer fear until you have learned what it is you're afraid of. The enemy is ignorance. Vivian Vance

[clickaway]

This really is a can of worms, and one I have an interest in!

I don't consider I have SA at the moment, and my current fears are health based, but that's just because I've had this disorder for so long (15 months) that the symptoms just get on top of me.

But I do believe that my overall condition, that is when I first had a panic attack 11 years ago was born out of a social anxiety condition, although I never saw it as that. I was probably always shy and self-concious, but that just got worse when I had epilepsy when I was 11. This sparked off an almighty chasm between me and my peer groups as I did not understand at that age, and of course nor did the school kids.

I got a real complex about myself and didn't really have any friends, and this screwed up my 'growing up ' years quite a bit. If I didn't have any friends myself, how could I get a girlfriend - even if I did have the balls to chat one up?

It was this isolation and frustration that I believe sparked off my anxiety.

I am much more confident and chatty now, but I feel I don't have enough in common with many folks for a proper bar-room chat.

My love is photography, and in particular candid shots of people in the street, an art I'm fairly good at (or so I'm told!). People often remark how they would not have the courage to do this, but to me its fairly easy, yet I'm still very self-conscious and easily fearful. But I love doing this so much, I just get on with it. I do sometimes wonder if this type of photography is a kind of substitute for me living alone with very few relationships behind me. I'll let a shrink answer that last point!

Thanks for listening,

Ray

[another_adam]

hey Unhappy_Tiger i take it that the psychotherapy is helping you feel less socially anxious?.

[maxine]

This is a fantastic topic,i have realised that my agoraphobia may well have devolped from SA.
Thinking about how i came to be in the position i am now, it all began with avoiding people who had ridiculed me when i was younger and also a very imposing relationship with my mother, i was told for years that i was't good enough, i could't do anything right ect( i suppose if your told something often enough you begin to believe it) Thankfully i no longer have any contact with such people but trying to believe i deserve a full and happy life is difficult.

I still avoid situations where i feel i may be scrutinsed, but then again i know deep down that i do deserve a happy life ( am i making any sence at all, i think i've picked up the rambling bug from Mico).
The point i am trying to make is that sometimes i over compensate my shyness with bravado in the hope that people wont notice how awkward i really am around them.

I dont think i deserve people's attention and respect so the million dollar question, How do you get over that?

Maxine

[mico]

Meg

Very true post! Don't thinnk I really have anything to add to that, you outlined it pretty well.

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I would really encourage anyone in this situation to just for one day or even hour at first to really listen to what you're saying to yourself and report back here what you thought and how that 'made' you respond..</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

I read that and though 'well, yeah, I do that quite a lot', as I'm always giving thought to something, why I do the things I do, why other people do the things they do, etc. But then I thought about it a little more and started asking myself if I do that in the context that you're suggesting. The answer would probably be 'no'. So I think I'll give that a try.

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Mico 'Great piece of writing' ' are you being serious ?'
Um hello - Yes !!</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

I really can't see it.

Ok, I can write things at times and think 'well, that's not a bad effort', but I struggle a lot with any kind of verbal or written comunication.

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Don't ask me where I'm going with this, I've lost myself ! I'm just thinking out loud here (again! sorry I did have something to say when I started this, but I forgot exactly what it was now).</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

That wasn't a joke, it wasn't low self esteem, I can easily, and often do, forget what I'm talking about mid-sentance. As you can imagine, it produces a lot of awkward moments, which doesn't help my confidence when speaking, at all. I've often wondered if it is caused by anxiety. I have a few thoughts on it. One thought is that anxiety produces a lack of concentration which in turn leads to a bad short term memory. But I'm really not sure about that. Another thought is, that I get so deep into what I'm thinking right at the present moment that I forget what the bigger picture was. For example, I'm exlpaining something, then I begin giving examples (such as this one ) and my thought gets so deep into the example that I forget why I was making an example in the first place. If anyone else has these troubles, then I'm very interested in hearing about them.

Anyway....

I accept that there are self esteem issues involved, and if I'm honest, I can often see them hiding in the background somewhere. This whole thing runs around in circles with me, because my trouble communicating encourages my anxiety with communicating, and no doubt my anxiety with communicating encourages my difficulties with communicating.

Thanks anyway


Ray

Pleased to hear that you're getting on well with these issues at the moment. It's an interesting view at the photography though. I too often observe people in the street (or anywhere else for that matter), it always interests me what makes these people tick. Why are these people diffirent from you? why are they the same? As I mentioned above; why do they do the things they do? What enables them to do these things? (I could fill a book up with these questions so I'll stop ) But I ask these questions almost everytime I encounter people in any way, shape, or form. I've never considered it to be anything to do with past relationships with me, I guess for me it's more about discovering who I am. At the

[KW]

Hi Mico

Great thread..and totally relate to what you are saying. I too constantly think I'm being judged and feel that whatever I say will sound stupid etc...It's hard work, I know that much!! Energy draining. If I'm having a conversation with one person or in a group I constantly worry about what they are thinking of me. It's very difficult when you're trying to listen to someone!! Like you say Andrew these feelings are embedded..I've been feeling them since I can remember..probably about the age of 7. My problems stem from childhood and it didn't help that my father picked on me amongst other problems aswell.

It's very frustrating because SA stops us from doing things we know we're capable of doing..it just gets in the way. I'd love to become a caseworker at work or manager and could do the job easily but it's the fear of interacting with people at meetings, doing talks etc that stops me. Often we don't get recognised for our skills because we keep them hidden.

I've climbed mount Snowdon, absailed down a cliff, got on a plane and flown to Australia.........but put me in a room with a group of people and ask me to talk and I'll have a full blown panic attack.

I agree with you Andrew finding the right kind of exposure does help. If I feel I've been avoiding eye contact too much with work colleagues I'll make an effort to look at them a bit more if they talk to me. It then gives me more confidence. I used to work as a receptionist at a clothing company and had to talk on a tanoy - my worst night mare!!! But....at the end of the day I always managed to speak because I pushed myself to do it so will always look that as an achievement in my life. You might think that's sad but it means something to me as I'd always been this shy, quiet girl and then I was booming my voice out on a tanoy, lol. I also operated a switchboard so I managed to overcome my fear of talking on the phone and am quite confident on the phone now. My counsellor was totally amazed at the fact I have SA yet I push myself to be in those awkward situtations that I find humiliating and frightening and believe me sometimes I just want to lock myself indoors and avoid them altogether but deep down I know it's not the answer.

KW

'Everyone believes very easily whatever they fear or desire'
- JEAN DE LA FONTAINE

[Tracy68]

Mico
WOW i've only be off the site for a day and look at the responses, and as Maxine said its a fantastic topic and certainly a wide and varied amount of replies.....great :-).
You said it was interesting that John wasn't always this way...which goes to prove like i said before this affects people in so many different ways and some stem from childhood while others it affected them later on in life.

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote"></td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

Many outgoing people can't stand to be on their own, they will avoid it at all costs. Me on the other hand, I have finely toned my skills over the years so that I can go into any situation and just be quiet and ponder over my thoughts.


John has always said as well that he prefers his own company, give him the choice of a night with the lads or a night in with the tv, he'll always pick the later.


KW

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote"></td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

I've climbed mount Snowdon, absailed down a cliff, got on a plane and flown to Australia.........but put me in a room with a group of people and ask me to talk and I'll have a full blown panic attack.


My John is exactly the same. He's been to Singapore, Malaysia and Bulgaria with a mate and had no problems whatsoever but he just can't handle a group of people.

I'm finding this whole subject very interesting and also extremely helpful. Like i said i still don't always understand him and its nice to hear other opinions and experiences.

Keep it going.

Take care
Tracy
x

[Unhappy_Tiger]

I know exactly what you mean about the avoidance personality. It's a major habit of mine to avoid things, social engagements, put off that trip to the store, etc. Sometimes I avoid things to the point of lowered grades, for example, not raising my hand in class. I guess that's what social anxiety's all about - avoidance and the problem that habitual avoidance causes with the changes of neural passageways.

I really found your comment regarding whether nature or nurture is responsible for this disorder enlightening - I had never actually considered the implications that it didn't matter because the consequences and treatment are one and the same.

I definitely agree with you regarding your view on nature and nurture. I am also of the opinion that both affect a person's development about equally.

Perhaps your inferiority complex did result from an avoidance of responsibility. Maybe all social phobia stems from some kind of inferiority idea in some way - whether it be a habitual avoidance of responsibility or one single event that people either can or can't remember.

Again, thanks for creating this post, it has really got me to thinking.

KW - how have you been? I haven't heard from you lately. Did you get my last PM?

[lisarose]

Hi Mico, well done on such a brilliant and interesting topic. There are so many things i want to say on this that i don't know where to start. I always thought i was an outgoing person, life an soul of the party sort of girl until I had my first panic attack in December 2000. my son was 5 months old and I had had a bad pregnancy, constantly worried that something would go wrong etc, I already had a six year old daughter from a previous relationship and had had been treated quite badly by boyfriends, had a brief marriage (8weeks) and been dumped by my husband with no explanation and suffered alot of mental and physical abuse by him. When i met my son's father I thought I had found the man of my dreams and the baby was the icing on the cake after such a bad relationship history, everything went downhill from that first panic attack and I have never been the same person since. The doctors put it down to post natal depression and severe anxiety and i was admitted to a physchiatric mother and baby unit for assessment, I was released after 5 days and diagnosed as suffering Panic disorder, GAD and post-natal depression and just sent home with a cocktail of pills which made me sucidal. I was afraid to go out of the house and was diagnosed with agorophobia something else to add to my C.V!!! I didn't go out of the house for 8 months only to the doctors or psychiatrist appointment, I didn't want to talk to anyone, see anyone and just became totally withdrawn. I even had social workers becoming involved and was convinced they would take my kids away because I was an unfit mother. Needless to say this didn't happen as at no time did I resent my kids or felt I was putting them at risk, I always looked after them and loved them as this was't the issue it was more of a case of hating myself and what i had become and being frustrated with the fact I didn't know what was really wrong with me, why it had happened to me or how I could get better. I convinced myself that I had got some serious illness that the doctors weren't picking up on. Anyway I hope you don't think I am waffling on as I find it hard to put into words and it is difficult to explain everything that happened as it would fill a book, The point I am trying to make is that it is hard to distinguish between anxiety disorders as often they are all interlinked and even the proffessionals cannot give a definate diagnosis. After everything I had gone through, my confidence was at an all time low and i found it hard to talk to people, even people I had known for years let alone new people, it would fill me with dread if someone I knew approached me in the street as i was scared i would say the wrong thing and they would think I was stupid and I would have to explain my anxiety disorder so I tried to avoid people as much as possible. I missed out on so much, even my childrens birthday parties, family parties etc becuase I didn't feel comfortable in aroom full of people and would start to get panicky. I started to drink alot to calm my anxieties and to try and feel a bit more confident and this helped in the short term and i was able to mix with people again but only if I had a a few drinks beforehand but this just made by panic attacks worse as I would always end up going over the top on the alcohol. It took a couple of years to realize that i couldn't keep using alcohol as my crutch and last August I stopped drinking and tried new meds which made me feel alot better and eased my anxiety for a while. I even started college part time which was a real breakthrough for me., but I had to get to know myself all over again. I constantly self anaylize myself and wonder who the real me is and wether I will ever be completly free of this illness and I drive myself mad at times. I have learned alot from this website and also from studying my psychology course as we have done all about anxiety disorders, childhood psychology, mental illness and the different psychological theories but I am still no closer to finding an answer as to why this has happened to me and wonder if I ever will. I still