Medication or not?

[Bill]

I decided to place this thread here because I wanted to raise a concern of mine to those who do and don't take medications.

I know some people wouldn't be without their ad's and I'm sure that if they feel more capable as a result of taking them then that's all well and good as we all just want to be able to get on with our lives by whichever means suits us best.

It's when anxiety sufferers are prescribed medications but they feel worse as a result that concerns me.

I know that when an anxiety sufferer goes to see a doctor, the doctor feels they "have" to offer something to ease the symptoms so they look up their ad's as being the quick option because to treat anxiety long term means therapy which often they can't prescribe because of long waiting lists.

However, ad's do often alieviate anxiety symptoms allowing a sufferer to feel better able to cope but I do feel they mask the underlying issues like putting a plaster over a septic wound because it's only when the wound is treated that the problem heals completely.

Anyway, that's a side issue to the point of this thread. What concerns me is IF or "when" medication side-effects mimic anxiety symptoms leading us to believe it's actually our anxiety that's got worse.

To give you an example of my concern.....

A person finds themself under a lot of stress at work and after a long period of trying to cope with the stress, they suddenly suffer a panic attack. They can't see what's caused this so they go to see their doctor who as a quick fix can only prescribe an ad. The person then goes away thinking this pill will then cure them of their panics and anxiety but for weeks after they feel worse. They put it down to their anxiety thinking that they must be really ill so they go back to the doctor who then increases their ad dose.

The symptoms though get worse. They feel more anxious, feel palpitations, can't sleep, feel agitated, get headaches, have nightmares, suffer diarrhoea, nausea, abdominal pains, a dry mouth, sweating, dizziness, loss of appetite, confusion, hallucinations, shaking, pins and needles, feel more depressed, even wanting to self-harm or feeling suicidal etc which the anxiety sufferer attributes to their original anxiety when in actual fact ALL of those problems listed above "can" be caused by side-effects of their medication. If you don't believe me, read your leaflet and I Know that some, if not all, will be listed on there.

I know side-effects "don't always occur" and that some people do find they help, and it's not those I have a concern about. It's when side-effects mimic anxiety symptoms confusing the sufferer into thinking they need a higher dose because they're getting "more" ill when they're not.

You see, going back to my example, the sufferers anxiety was brought by the stress of their job. They may end up losing the job but then they are no longer suffering the stress from their job either so they may not even need medication but the medications can actually make someone feel they Do need them. It becomes a spiral and a trap because once we start down the road of medications IF they don't suit us, we can end up feeling worse as a result and also find it difficult to stop taking them.

For those who don't know me, I have tried Alot of medications and I found that for example diazepam caused my panic attacks, seroxat caused me nightmares and pins and needles etc. I found that once I gradually came off them I felt much better because by then all the issues that had been causing me stress had long since past. I feel quite sure it was the medications that prolonged my anxiety symptoms because they only ever lifted my mood but never cured my anxiety.

Please don't misunderstand me though because I do know that medications DO help some people and that they CAN help. It's when they have a reverse effect that worries me because reading peoples posts on here I can actually see that it is "possible" that their symptoms are being made worse by their meds.

A couple of additional thoughts to consider - what is anxiety? Anxiety is "worry". Worry is caused by "fear". Fear is caused by "stress". Stress can be caused by events in our past or in the present such as in our jobs. How then can a med cure us?

How do meds work on anxiety? They're called anti-depressants for a reason - because as the name suggests they lift a persons mood which is why I feel they work best on someone who is feeling "clinically depressed" rather than feeling depressed due to anxiety.

What I'm trying to say is don't view medications as a cure because the causes to anxiety are created by our own minds caused by lack of confidence, sensitivity, too much stress in our past or present etc.

I'm just trying to raise awareness to the fact that meds "can" mimic anxiety symptoms which can force us down the wrong path so that we end up feeling worse and not better.

The reason for this new thread is because I read a post by "LONELY" and I realised that all the symptoms described "could" be being caused by their meds.

I don't want people thinking I'm against meds though because I'm not when they are actually benefiting people. It's just when the side effects mimic anxiety symptoms and so mislead people that concerns me because they "can" end up preventing a sufferers recovery.

There was alot of talk about Seroxat and the harm it "can" cause. The same I feel "can" be said of other meds.

Finally, as an example, take a look at these side effects for venlafaxine and you'll understand my concerns. How many of these "can" also be caused by anxiety???.........

Disturbances of the gut such as diarrhoea, constipation, nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain. IBS?

Dry mouth. Tension?

Difficulty in sleeping (insomnia). Worries?

Sleepiness. Worries?

Dizziness. Panics?

Sweating. Panics?

Nervousness. Fear?

Weakness or loss of strength (asthenia). Panic?

Sexual problems. Stress?

Headache. Tension?

Loss of appetite. Nerves?

Weight changes. Worry?

Pain in the muscles and joints. Tension?

Abnormal dreams. Worries?

Agitation and anxiety. Stress?

Confusion. Stress?

Pins and needles (paraesthesia). Panics?

Tremor. Stress?

Awareness of your heartbeat (palpitations). Panics???????

Visual disturbances. Stress?

Abnormal heart beats (arrhythmias). Panics???????

There are others I've not listed.

Don't just assume your symptoms ARE just anxiety and if in doubt, see your doctor especially if anxiety symptoms worsen after taking meds. Like I say though, meds CAN help sufferer feel better. Just be aware that the reverse can also happen.

[Goodlife]

Very insightful post Bill.
I am on meds and have been since October 07. At the time I guess I did need something to get me through, and as you say in your post, I thought take these and I'll be better. I'm now in a position where thankfully the panic attacks are under control but I still experience many of the symptoms mentioned in your post.
Now I wonder is it still the anxiety or are these side affects from the drugs I take ? Would I, over the passage of time, have improved without the medication ? Now I'll never know.
In hindsight I wish I hadn't gone down the meds route, and I guess soon the dr will suggest it's time to come off them and I wonder how I will cope with that.
I think, like many others, that medication should be one of the last resorts after cbt etc, instead of being the first thing offered by so many dr.s.
Regards
Goodlife

[Crystaltips]

I have refused any meds because I want to beat this and get rid once and for all.
I agree with your point about meds being a sticking plaster, and to get rid of anxiety you need to get to the cause of it. I have just started my counselling and I believe in her totally and hope that she can sort me out. I have tried kalms, and found they did stop me shaking at times when it has been bad... But did it really, or did I want to think it had?!
I know my Doctor is rather cross with me for not taking any meds, as I know she wants me back at work, but my counsellor has agree to go along with me. She just says it will take longer....

[Anxious_gal]

I see meds as a band aid in some cases.
but for depression I think meds can really help because sometimes you need medication to get you out of bad spell.
what I don't like is doctor's giving you medication and NO therapy!
thats just crazy! the amount of medication i was offered for my anxiety is ridicules, I wasn't offered or even recommend to go to therapy.
i think no one should be allowed certain medication without therapy, be it meditation class's, positivity class's, counseling, group activities.
thing is there's not much therapy and alternative therapy available in my town!
but i do see a councillor

[Crystaltips]

I started my counselling this week - she said 'I wish I had got my hands on you sooner!'

The doc tried to arrange NHS, but the earliest date was 22 jan - this was from the start of December. I am doing it private now.

[panelman]

great post bill. everything you said makes a whole lot of sense. i know the first time i was on meds that i only got better when i eventually stopped taking them. i went downhill again last august though after about 6 pretty ok years of no panic attacks and what did i do... yes straight back on the meds again even though i had bad experiences with dem the first time. so after taking 20mg of prozac a day for 3 months it was put up to 40mg per day because i was getting worse rather than better. so now they said while i was waiting for that to kick in i should take xanax if i felt panic (which i swore i would never take again after the 1st time because i got addicted to them) and then i was prescribed sleeping tabs for night time called stillnoct which im now also told are addictive. at the moment im not sure what symtoms are connected to what. i would just like to say 2 things to any one reading this... 1. think very wisly before agreeing to take meds prescribed by either a psycs or a gp when its to do with anxiety or panic attacks and 2. just take another couple of minutes to read bill's post again as there is a wealth of imformation in it. kind regards henry

[Vanilla Sky]

Interesting post and probably a lot of truth in it but i feel its a viscouis circle. You feel so bad for days, weeks, hours so if you are given something to stop it, even if it is short term, you take it just for a bit of peace. If you go to the docs in a state what are they meant to do? An unsympathetic doc i went to said she would refer me for counselling, when did i get an appointment... 6 weeks later.. what was i meant to do for the next hour never mind the next 6 weeks... when i did get there i went for 6 sessions and it never helped me one little bit. Perhaps if the gp had given me something to calm me i may have been in a better frame of mind for the counselling. It transpired that the counseller spoke to my gp because she felt i wasnt responding and then i was offered medication. I suppose that gp was being cautious , i understand that but i went through hell and i did need something to ' get the ball rolling' . So i feel that meds are nessecery in a lot of cases of anxiety and depression. It needs to be monotored carefully by our gps and i feel that doctors need more training with mental health issues. Some of them need more people skills as well. I do see what your saying about meds but whats the alternative? Paige

[alias_kev]

Hi GoodLife. You picked up on the best points in the opening post which has saved me a lot of typing for once.

I can partly from experience and partly as a devils advocate throw up some reverse arguments though:

I used to work in a high stress environment and was mostly OK with that. I now beleive that this active-stress (as opposed to frustration-stress) actually blocked the anxiety that was underlying some of my problems at the time. I repeated this recently when a period of high stress and unavoidable planning & organising blocked a lot of my current GAD. Which has returned now the active-stress is far less.

Similarly there were some situations that threw me into a strong depression in June which completely immobilised me. The Meds (escitalopram) seem to have eliminated that depression only leaving me with stress and anxiety. I also concluded during some brief CBT that the anxiety is the starting place for me and is why I concluded that I had underlying GAD. For fortunately (?) some write ups of escitalopram suggest it is benefitial to GAD - so it should be helping to some degree by now with the GAD as well.

I suspect the worst issues with prescription of meds is that the doctor looks at someone displaying (and reporting) some of the symptoms from depression, anxiety, stress, panic-attack, "attacks of panic" (which I see as different), and phobia. They usually just throw a med at it. Almost any of the illnesses can lead to some or all of the others. The secondary illness may be more obvious than the original one too. The NHS also pushes them to prescribe the an obvious and cheap medication. I count myself as lucky to be given escitalopram rather than citalopram - but on the flip side some sources and doctors claim there is no difference even though the maximum approved dosage is very different. There are meds that are better with each of the illnesses so the doctor and NHS are probably failing us all more by prescribing at random or on price rather than finding the best drug for the underlying problem of that patient!

On the flip side in many regions you may not get CBT on the NHS, or it may be a long wait. I got an initial interview fairly quickly and by a quirk of fate joined a group course the next day! But that was still a month or two after I saw the doctor. If someone is immobilised or has to cope with something they will gain from a pill quicker than they will get any other help, even if we recognise that an SSRI takes weeks to stabilise and give a reliable benefit. The course also only lasted six hours and probably only 5 of that was real after allowing for tea breaks and exit surveys. And thats it. Job done according to the NHS.

Coming off pills is another minefield. Many GPs seem to get the process wrong. Years ago my Dad was left on Ritalin for many years. Then they got obsessed with getting him off them. By then he was both adicted and emotionally dependant on the pill. It also seemed to work for him! But the edicts now said get him off it might be adictive. Well duuh - it was too late and so they made a pensioner keep going cold turkey. It never worked and even when he was free of the pill he was never really the same again. So this tale cuts both ways - both take care coming off and take care at what you take for an extended period.

Pills are not the answer - they are a a tool. Used well tools are good. Used badly tools are dangerous.

[debera]

fantastic post bill. i couldnt agree with you more. i do believe also that med are not the answer in allot if cases.in my case i think meds have made my anxiety worse
debera
x x

[freakedout]

Thanks for the post Bill,

I will read it when I havent got the attention span of a fly!

Freaky