Rabies from a squirrel

[Panicandpeace]

Hi! So I've been lurking on these threads for a while now, and finally decided to post about my own rabies fear. I go back and forth between thinking that I'm irrational and then thinking that I have an actual reason to be concerned. So here it goes:

About 7 years ago my dog got bitten by a squirrel in our backyard. I heard her crying from inside the house, so I rushed outside. When I saw her limping, I scooped her up and carried her inside. She's a little chihuahua mix. I was crying hysterically because I couldn't figure out where the blood was coming from, so I was hands on, inspecting her whole body, her *squirrel saliva laden* blood all over me. It was winter, and I ALWAYS have cracked hands in the winter. I was also wiping my eyes and nose because, again, I was crying. We took my dog to the vet, and she was obviously fine because she was vaccinated, and the vet's office called us later that day to tell us that the health department told us not to worry about bringing in the squirrel for testing because "squirrels don't carry rabies." Never thought about it again, until years later, I was reading an article about some people in Central Park who had all gotten PEP shots after being bitten by an "aggressive squirrel." I remember thinking, "but squirrels don't get rabies." That's when I started looking things up, and that's when everything changed.

All of the sudden, I had this new information that not only can squirrels carry rabies *it's just unlikely* but also that rabies can incubate, albeit in rare cases, for years. Somehow, I was able to talk myself down, and convinced myself that it was unlikely, and I was good to go for a few years. Until recently. I was watching TV and the topic of rabies came up, and it triggered the thought process again. I decided to look information up again because it had calmed me down, for whatever reason, years before. This time, however, my fears only snowballed. I've since been to my primary care physician who referred me to an ID doctor, and also spoke with a doctor/epidemiologist at my state's health department, All have said essentially the same thing, "it's highly, highly unlikely, but of course, I can't say impossible." And that is what my brain gets hung up on. I don't like uncertainty. Especially with something like this. I know I'd be a unicorn if I got rabies after 7 years, but I'm still panicked. All 3 doctors advised against getting the PEP shots. I'm still considering them. I'd have to go to the ER to get them and talk to yet another doctor about it. I know I have health anxiety for sure, but (and no judgement) I didn't just feel a gust of wind and think it was a bat. I know it's been a long time, and most people wouldn't be worried, but this is where I'm at. I'm worried that a small amount of the virus got in through cuts on my hand and because the amount was so small, it's been incubating for years and I'm a ticking time bomb. That's where I'm at. It's very frustrating. I'm not sure what to do at the moment. Just wanted to share my story. Anybody have anything similar?

[NervUs]

I have been through something kind of similar. Long story short, I discovered a very dead bat in my 4 year old's room last March. Upon discovery, it was completely skeletonized and very brittle. There is no way to know but educated guesses put it at at least 6 months dead at discovery, maybe more.

Welp, I panicked like I've never panicked before... and as someone put through biopsies for cancer 3 times, that is saying something. My child is 4, would have been 3 when the bat was in her room. I did get her the RPEP.

I have other kids, have had overnight visitors, and of course my husband and myself. I didn't know where the bat had been or how long it pranced around my house. It buried itself in a box of outgrown clothes and we never smelled a rotting carcass and never saw any bugs. Given all the unknowns, I wanted to get shots for all of us, plus visitors. But, CDC guidelines recommended PEP for my daughter only. Honestly, my husband and I do sleep in her room pretty often but decided we probably would have woken up. I still agonized about getting my other kids shots, but it would have cost over $20 K out of pocket to get all three of them shots for an extremely remote implausibility. They are also several years older than she is and, I think, would have woken up.

Ultimately, we decided not to pursue vax for anyone else. Given a bat known to be in the house, I feel like this does carry some true risk to all of us still, sort of like your case.

I have come to peace with the decision, truly. It has been 7 months since finding the bat, and at least a year since it died in the house. It is extremely rare for rabies to incubate that long, like less than 1% of cases. I have read every rabies case report in the US and many from overseas. Plus I straight up talked to an expert from the CDC. 1-3 months is the typical incubation period. Many of the years long incubations are from cases overseas, and there could be lots of barriers (language or otherwise) to question the stories and memories behind long ago exposures.

You have gone so long beyond 1-3 months. I really wouldn't worry anymore. Truly. You touched saliva which is a very low transmission risk to begin with, much less risk than a bite. The RPEP is not cheap, and it carries its own risks. Vaccine injuries do happen with RPEP. Some of them are severe, and I did not feel good about putting my girl at risk for that. So, you have to consider that for yourself, 7 years into a remotely possible exposure.

I know it is hard to live with rabies uncertainty, but 3 docs agree that you should not get the shots. That says something about risk v benefit. I know it doesn't eliminate all risk. I think, at some point, we do have to accept that we are part of nature. Seven years is very good evidence that rabies is not part of your life story. I hope this huge wall of text helps you a liitle and lets you know others are living with similar uncertainty and doing fine.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Did the vet actually confirm bites on your dog? I'm asking because squirrels have very sharp claws which will be their primary weapons and they are less likely to bite since that makes them more likely to be injured.

If they didn't then that opens up the possibility of even less contact than you think.

Hope your dog is ok. I bet she learnt a harsh lesson that not all small fury things are squeaky toys that day. My dog would be the same, he goes up to anything.

[axolotl]

I always understood rabies was incredibly rare in small prey animals like rodents, because they are overwhelmingly likely to die in the attack by the animal that would have given it to them.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:04 ----------

The incident you mention in Central Park probably led to shots as a precuation because a squirrel being overly aggressive and going out of its way to bite people is unusual behaviour. A squirrel defending itself against a dog (whether it was being aggressive or simply over-curious) isn't unusual.

[Panicandpeace]

Did the vet actually confirm bites on your dog? I'm asking because squirrels have very sharp claws which will be their primary weapons and they are less likely to bite since that makes them more likely to be injured.

If they didn't then that opens up the possibility of even less contact than you think.

Hope your dog is ok. I bet she learnt a harsh lesson that not all small fury things are squeaky toys that day. My dog would be the same, he goes up to anything.

This was about 7.5 years ago, so I don't remember the vet saying whether or not it was for sure a bite. My dog was bleeding a lot, so I just assumed it was a bite. I never even considered that it could have been a scratch. Pretty sure it was a bite though. My mom says she remembers seeing a branch that looked like it had only recently broken and fallen from a tree beside the squirrel when she got home. We have pretty tall trees in my back yard. So, she swears that the squirrel was on the branch that fell, got injured, and that's how/why my dogs pounced... and got bitten when the squirrel was defending itself. This is all speculative.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

I always understood rabies was incredibly rare in small prey animals like rodents, because they are overwhelmingly likely to die in the attack by the animal that would have given it to them.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:04 ----------

The incident you mention in Central Park probably led to shots as a precuation because a squirrel being overly aggressive and going out of its way to bite people is unusual behaviour. A squirrel defending itself against a dog (whether it was being aggressive or simply over-curious) isn't unusual.

You're right, I'm sure that's why they took that precaution in New York. However, I guess I worry because I never observed the behavior of the squirrel that bit my dog, not to mention, I read an article (I know, I shouldn't have) that suggested that rabid rodents don't necessarily behave in an obviously rabid/sick manner like other animals. This was several years ago, so my dogs were faster/younger than they are now, but it's not like they're hunting dogs. I don't know, maybe they just achieved every dog's dream of actually catching a squirrel... My mom swears that the squirrel must have fallen from a tree because she saw a freshly broken branch beside the squirrel when she got home. We have pretty tall trees in my back yard. And that's how/why my dogs pounced and caught the squirrel... and got bitten. You're right that it's rare. I guess I just get hung up on the idea of "Well, it's pretty unlikely, but it's not impossible." Which is the only answer the doctors I've spoken to can give me. Yet, they've all advised against the shots.

[MyNameIsTerry]

That leaves the usual lack of a definite answer anxiety loves but in the same way it does also lend itself to not being a bite either. So, consciously you can use that as counter evidence in that there is no surety.

[axolotl]

That leaves the usual lack of a definite answer anxiety loves but in the same way it does also lend itself to not being a bite either. So, consciously you can use that as counter evidence in that there is no surety.

Yeah, anxiety will always retreat to those tiny cracks of possibility, however small. There's few things in this world that are totally 100% impossible - even if astronomically improbable - and going into an anxious situation looking to prove impossibility is almost always going to fail. That's one of many reasons why reassurance-seeking behaviour doesn't make people feel better, it just pushes the anxious thoughts down into less and less likely scenarios.

We have all been there. Uncertainty is the thing that does me when I spiral, it's so hard to take a step back and see that what you fear is so overwhelmingly unlikely it's not worth wasting your time over, which is a different thing to being literally impossible. So while sometimes it's good to read things like I said above about squirrels to temporarily salve the panic, it will never get to the root of the anxiety.

[Panicandpeace]

I did the invisible bat thing today. I've never done that before... I've always been very scared of my specific experience with my dog and a squirrel. Today, I was outside. A neighbor showed me to her backyard to show off some new furniture in her outdoor space. We had to walk through wet grass to get there (it rained all day), and I had sandals on. It's a pretty overgrown backyard, lots of trees and bushes. Anyway, once I got back inside my house, I was first panicked that I'd stepped on a downed bat without knowing/feeling it. I have a blister on my heel (open wound). Then, after being inside for a while and washing my hands, I was convinced I saw two small marks on my left hand that had to have been a bite, my hand was a little tender/red in that spot, and a bat had bitten me, again, without me knowing. I was carrying a few grocery bags on my arms, and I wasn't really aware/paying attention to my hands. I got very panicked. Even considered going to the ER, to be completely honest. I've just read (again, I know, let's all do an eye roll), so many articles about how people don't always feel bat bites. The neighbor's backyard, all overgrown and dark just seems like a place bats would hang out.

[axolotl]

I did the invisible bat thing today. I've never done that before... I've always been very scared of my specific experience with my dog and a squirrel. Today, I was outside. A neighbor showed me to her backyard to show off some new furniture in her outdoor space. We had to walk through wet grass to get there (it rained all day), and I had sandals on. It's a pretty overgrown backyard, lots of trees and bushes. Anyway, once I got back inside my house, I was first panicked that I'd stepped on a downed bat without knowing/feeling it. I have a blister on my heel (open wound). Then, after being inside for a while and washing my hands, I was convinced I saw two small marks on my left hand that had to have been a bite, my hand was a little tender/red in that spot, and a bat had bitten me, again, without me knowing. I was carrying a few grocery bags on my arms, and I wasn't really aware/paying attention to my hands. I got very panicked. Even considered going to the ER, to be completely honest. I've just read (again, I know, let's all do an eye roll), so many articles about how people don't always feel bat bites. The neighbor's backyard, all overgrown and dark just seems like a place bats would hang out.

Hi Panic, I'm not sure we're going to be able to throw logic at you to help here as it sounds like you know how incredible the idea is. Are you getting any help for your anxiety?

[Panicandpeace]

Hi Panic, I'm not sure we're going to be able to throw logic at you to help here as it sounds like you know how incredible the idea is. Are you getting any help for your anxiety?

You're right. I was able to calm myself down quite a bit just by writing it out. I am seeing a psychiatrist in a month (soonest this doctor was taking new patients). He was highly recommended to me by my primary care doctor, and he always gives me great referrals. I told him I wanted to see somebody who specializes in CBT. I'm looking forward to it, just wish I could get in to see him a little bit sooner.