Fire Safety tests How Safe Are High Rises A Tonight Special

[saf138]

Cheers Dave I finally found it your programme navigational skills was tip top lol ill report back once I watched it.

[bottleblond]

I don't even know where to begin about this one. It was failure after failure after failure. Grenfell tower was completely avoidable had councils not decided to go with the cheapest tender offered.

These failings have been going on since the 50/60's. It was proven years ago that these products were dangerous eg: highly flammable but not only are they still being manufactured but still being used in social housing for insulation. That's completely inhumane.

These people need answers, they needs the fire safety records that I am quite sure will be 'altered' before being released to the public.

In my books, this should be a criminal investigation.

[Bigboyuk]

Cheers Dave I finally found it your programme navigational skills was tip top lol ill report back once I watched it.

Hey Np Saf Tbh though it should have been easy just to search for it ITV have messed up again Yeah look forward to your comments Cheers

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

I don't even know where to begin about this one. It was failure after failure after failure. Grenfell tower was completely avoidable had councils not decided to go with the cheapest tender offered.

These failings have been going on since the 50/60's. It was proven years ago that these products were dangerous eg: highly flammable but not only are they still being manufactured but still being used in social housing for insulation. That's completely inhumane.

These people need answers, they needs the fire safety records that I am quite sure will be 'altered' before being released to the public.

In my books, this should be a criminal investigation.

bb A total failure I mean taking routine fire testing away from the Fire Service and allowing the government to take over this important task is criminal and that Artitech Guy was not listened to is insane You obviously saw How Germany handles it top notch across the board Yes and it will be a criminal investigation too to me the first people to go in the dock should be the manufactures of this dangerous cladding who fitted it to many bulidings across the Uk second should be the councils involved in signing off the works as safe as they clearly wernt. Yes those victims of Grenfell deserve a full and througher enquirery No cover ups Thanks for your comments bb Cheers

[saf138]

Oh my the incompetence is overwhelming I would even go as far as to say this is corporate manslaughter. I get that the government has made drastic cuts over the years but you can't play Russian roulette with human lives they should spend more money on the safety of the british public rather than spending 100s of thousands on stupid things like sculptures that sit outside city halls. Grrrrr

[Bigboyuk]

Oh my the incompetence is overwhelming I would even go as far as to say this is corporate manslaughter. I get that the government has made drastic cuts over the years but you can't play Russian roulette with human lives they should spend more money on the safety of the british public rather than spending 100s of thousands on stupid things like sculptures that sit outside city halls. Grrrrr

Saf totally agree but I actually don't get the cuts not just lack of funding but in the number of checks time wise like a full assessment should take many hrs as recommended by the fire service down to paltrey 45 mins after this fire well everything is going to be re thought and I can see huge riots taking place if the residents get bull shit and a watered down enquiery truly a serious lack of common sense on many peoples (high up people) parts I am gob smacked and words fail me thanks for your input on this Cheers

[saf138]

Definately my friend how on earth can you carry out a fire assessment on high rise buildings in 45 mins I could now just imagine some jobsworth with a clipboard ticking the boxes away like there's no Tommorow. Its beyond incompetence its lack of due care and laziness and I guarantee you Dave if the enquiry is commisioned by the government which it will there will Definately be a watered down enquiry. I don't even accept the narrative about only 80 people had died I would say you could put that figure well into the hundreds considering the fire started at night making the building full of people. It is believed that a fireman came out and said they found 40 bodies in 1 flat so how can 80 dead be the "official" figure.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Did the products pass safety regs at the time? If the answer is yes, the issue should be the regs surely?

We used to freely use asbestos. We found out it was dangerous. Regs were changed. How could you retrospectively argue it was dangerous when expected safety standards are passed on a product?

It's up to our government to protect us from dangerous products.

[saf138]

Did the products pass safety regs at the time? If the answer is yes, the issue should be the regs surely?

We used to freely use asbestos. We found out it was dangerous. Regs were changed. How could you retrospectively argue it was dangerous when expected safety standards are passed on a product?

It's up to our government to protect us from dangerous products.

I'm afraid the cladding used on high rise buildings did in fact fail safety regulations and the programme that was aired on ITV mentioned that on 4 occasions (1973, 1991, 1999 and 2009) a high leisure centre and 3 high rise tower blocks went up in flames killing multiple people all had the same external cladding which was the cause for such infernos. It took only 4 and half minutes for 1 building to be engulfed in flames. So my argument is that the government knew that the cause for those fires was the external cladding yet not only left the cladding on buildings that already had it but also continued to use such cladding on buildings.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thanks, I haven't seen the programme.

So, did the product itself pass manufacturing regs?

Then if those fires proved the product was a failure were the building safety regs changed to prevent further use of them? And were the HSE taking it to the manufacturer to remove the product from the market?

This is where I struggle with this. Who has allowed this product to even be fitted if they knew it was a fail? The safety regs at the buildings then become the next issue.

It's important because were the manufacturer unaware? Have the HSE not acted to make changes to prevent future occurances?

The government has changed, the councils have changed. But people like the HSE were there all the time and supposed to be doing their jobs just as local safety inspection isn't subject to politics. Have the government hamstrung the HSE?

[Bigboyuk]

Definately my friend how on earth can you carry out a fire assessment on high rise buildings in 45 mins I could now just imagine some jobsworth with a clipboard ticking the boxes away like there's no Tommorow. Its beyond incompetence its lack of due care and laziness and I guarantee you Dave if the enquiry is commisioned by the government which it will there will Definately be a watered down enquiry. I don't even accept the narrative about only 80 people had died I would say you could put that figure well into the hundreds considering the fire started at night making the building full of people. It is believed that a fireman came out and said they found 40 bodies in 1 flat so how can 80 dead be the "official" figure.

It's not possible to do and as it said in council guide lines by reducing the time spent on these assessments means the person can quickly resume his 'normal' job which could mean they aren't really trained in fire risk assesments as we saw on the programme you can complete a 5 day course in fire risk assesments and get a cert to say you can now peform these assesments as a qualified person I couldn't believe it when I heard that Yes the council will deffo try and cover their back I can see many emails and or docs being got rid of which is wrong, but what goes round, will come round. Thanks for your comments mate Cheers

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Thanks, I haven't seen the programme.

So, did the product itself pass manufacturing regs?

Then if those fires proved the product was a failure were the building safety regs changed to prevent further use of them? And were the HSE taking it to the manufacturer to remove the product from the market?

This is where I struggle with this. Who has allowed this product to even be fitted if they knew it was a fail? The safety regs at the buildings then become the next issue.

It's important because were the manufacturer unaware? Have the HSE not acted to make changes to prevent future occurances?

The government has changed, the councils have changed. But people like the HSE were there all the time and supposed to be doing their jobs just as local safety inspection isn't subject to politics. Have the government hamstrung the HSE?

That's a good point Terry but it wasn't mentioned on the programme (which I recommend you to watch) As for the manufacturer (Ryndon's)knowing that the material was indeed posing a fire risk we cant say, Apparently on the programme, regs were changed and updated each time there was a fire in a high rise block. so were they changed enough to stop the use of the dangerous cladding and now because of Grenfell The whole regs should be changed and the use of the cladding 'Banned' for use in future buildings and refurbs, but will it??? I doubt this very much
As for HSE Iam surprised that they haven't got involved as it was a major incident at Grenfell Unless I have missed something they haven't been called in?? Terry if you have 30 mins to spare it's well worth watching Cheers

---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------

I'm afraid the cladding used on high rise buildings did in fact fail safety regulations and the programme that was aired on ITV mentioned that on 4 occasions (1973, 1991, 1999 and 2009) a high leisure centre and 3 high rise tower blocks went up in flames killing multiple people all had the same external cladding which was the cause for such infernos. It took only 4 and half minutes for 1 building to be engulfed in flames. So my argument is that the government knew that the cause for those fires was the external cladding yet not only left the cladding on buildings that already had it but also continued to use such cladding on buildings.

Yes and 3 decades have since gone and yet this suspect cladding is still being used (as a cheaper but much more dangerous product) The product should have been banned years ago you know the deeper you delve in to this the worse it gets, I hope residents of Grenfell will do their 'own' research too on this matter Edit: There is another programme aired on Thursday the 15 July 2 days after this fire with special guests in the studio where a councillor for the borough many times raised issues with the borough council who turned a blind eye to residents concerns. so any one who watched the first programme do watch the other again very shocking and damning Thank you. Cheers