Front door

[Scissel]

I just read it myself, Terry. Very insightful and helpful. Thank u

[AntsyVee]

I think its unclear. He has mentioned he sees a psychiatrist which is connected to an earlier episode and not for anxiety. Not sure where the OCD came from but given the behaviours & intensity are there it's very likely. Not OCPD though.

I've been down the bipolar research route myself to find it's much more complex than we may realise until we read about cyclical type disorders in the Mood Disorders category. I used to have many mood swings but not to the point of what I believed bipolar to be. Down I would expect, depression is common in anxiety, but I had ups too. I would splurg. It gave me something. So I wondered if that mapped to the up swings in bipolar, the risk taking side (I know others with OCD who have had periods of risk taking too). I wondered whether I had one of the less intense forms where swings occur more frequently. But in the end I tracked it all starting to when I started a med and with some Omega 3 self treatment managed to balance my moods (took over a year).

So getting a high from buying a new door is something I question with phil. We can all see it's not the thrill chasing the therapist suggested but an action to create some form of relief. That's more anxiety disorder.

He doesn't seem bipolar to me either but we've never fully understood why a psychiatrist is still monitoring him years later. You can't get them to see you over here.

I have noticed phil tends to talk about having anxiety, OCD and occasionally bipolar. He says the OCD is more in control and it's the anxiety that bothers him. I question this as his threads are OCD, the behaviours and possible solutions are all there. So I think he has some confusion there. Does he mean GAD by anxiety? I wouldn't say these threads demonstrate that more than OCD, which is not to say he doesn't have that too.

In Phil, I see symptoms of NPD, GAD, and OCD. But again, this is based on online posting, and I'm not a psych. I'm just a problem solver by nature, so for me, getting a diagnosis is the first step to dealing with your problems. It's like, let's figure out what we're dealing with and then make a game plan to fix it. It's hard for me to accept that others are not like that. In fact, many others that post on here don't plan to ever work on their issues. Venting here about their issues is all they are ever going to do, and it sounds like Phil is one of them. To me, venting helps, but it isn't enough. I"m a "take the bull by the horns" kind of person.

And I don't take your teacher comments as a dig on me. I understand what you're trying to say. I feel like I understand OCD pretty well, as much as an outsider can, by living with a friend/roommate with it for several years, but I do not understand some versions of it like POCD or HOCD. The POCD gives me the heebie geebies and makes me sick to my stomach to listen to any of it, and the HOCD makes me angry because being LGBTQ shouldn't be thought of as wrong, to me. But those are my limitations, and I stay off those threads/boards.

As a kid who suffered with GAD and depression, and who was labeled in special education as a kid, I think it's very important that we have teachers who know what they're doing and are willing to work with kids who have mental health issues. It's one of the reasons I do what I do.

[MyNameIsTerry]

In Phil, I see symptoms of NPD, GAD, and OCD. But again, this is based on online posting, and I'm not a psych. I'm just a problem solver by nature, so for me, getting a diagnosis is the first step to dealing with your problems. It's like, let's figure out what we're dealing with and then make a game plan to fix it. It's hard for me to accept that others are not like that. In fact, many others that post on here don't plan to ever work on their issues. Venting here about their issues is all they are ever going to do, and it sounds like Phil is one of them. To me, venting helps, but it isn't enough. I"m a "take the bull by the horns" kind of person.

And I don't take your teacher comments as a dig on me. I understand what you're trying to say. I feel like I understand OCD pretty well, as much as an outsider can, by living with a friend/roommate with it for several years, but I do not understand some versions of it like POCD or HOCD. The POCD gives me the heebie geebies and makes me sick to my stomach to listen to any of it, and the HOCD makes me angry because being LGBTQ shouldn't be thought of as wrong, to me. But those are my limitations, and I stay off those threads/boards.

As a kid who suffered with GAD and depression, and who was labeled in special education as a kid, I think it's very important that we have teachers who know what they're doing and are willing to work with kids who have mental health issues. It's one of the reasons I do what I do.

Yes, HOCD gets twisted up with homophobia sometimes but they're nothing alike. However what is to stop someone already homophobic with OCD experiencing it? Achilles Heel after all.

HOCD goes both ways so gay/bi people fear being straight. That could be argued as heterophobia, something science doesn't seem to have decided on yet, since there's nothing wrong with being straight either. The only difference is the history of oppression of LGBT+ (trans gets it's own OCD theme though and that one must be complicated for someone who has already transitioned, or even hasn't, given the confusion it can bring for some).

But we have to talk in anxiety disorder terms to avoid bias. My experience of HOCD people on here has been they have no issue with anyone else being xyz just not them. Now if you applied that to someone who is gay you could easily see how they have a strong understanding of their sexuality since they've had to do a lot of work against a world stacked against them. It's easy being hetero by comparison, you're just there and that's all the thought needed. So, someone gay having intrusive thoughts that question their identity is a big thing surely?

In OCD terms the same patterns are there for the straight person. Some on here have gay friends. And vice versa.

I think the homophobe wouldn't be so liberal.

There is even the problem of things like religion. They may have been taught it's wrong so it's another Achilles Heel issue but not the same as someone who sees it as completely normal.

The OCD is using some part of your identity that is important to you because it evokes maximum response. We are used to the 'am I going mad' stuff on here but perhaps less so the 'am I losing my morality' (themes like POCD, Harm Based OCD) or 'are my values changing'.

There's an excellent thread on the OCD board by Beatroon about HOCD and how it differs to true sexuality from her perspective. As a gay woman she explains the differences.

Like you I like to have a plan. I look for tools & techniques. The hard bit is always using them though. But because I had violent intrusive thoughts about my parents I had to learn about this side. I'm not a violent person and love my parents to bits. I've known plenty of violent people though.

Themes like POCD are very emotive. Some sufferers on here have been brave enough to talk about it and some have been jumped on out of ignorance. But it's no different to something like Harm Based OCD, if you perpetrated some of the thoughts I had the sentence would be even higher, the same things are there. It focussed on my parents because I love them so much. Same for the parent having such horrible thoughts about their kids, the thing in life they love most.

I've always tried not to get emotionally involved in threads; treat them like a customer query. It lets me keep a distance which is useful when talking about certain themes.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I totally agree, and thank you for taking the time to make it Terry. Thanks for reminding us, and opening thoughts on the far more complex situation that exists here, for Phil and each one of us, with a range of such individual differences that makes each person unique. Some very interesting points made about the comparisons from HA to other anxiety type sufferers ! I don't have the selective perfectionism side of things, but someone in my family does very badly, so did recognise it as something Phil had going on there.

An excellent post, Terry, which has given us lots to think about.

I just read it myself, Terry. Very insightful and helpful. Thank u

Thanks guys, your kind words are very much appreciated

[MyNameIsTerry]

I do the symmetrical thing, but, again, it affects me no matter where I am.

I wonder if autism might be the difference with me? I might have to get my books out and research autism and OCD..

Do they still do lobotomies?

Interesting post though Terry!

If they do fancy a NMP day trip?

Maybe it is, autism is far more impacting? The strictness people like pulisa have explained goes well beyond OCD and having both is going to be really tough. Pulisa would understand more, I know little compared to you guys and she also knows how little the professionals seem to understand such a complex combination.

Some OCDers on here have one theme and that's it. It torments them at fever pitch. Others have more themes. I'm in the latter camp but not all themes upset me as much. The dominant ones took much more work whilst reducing my overall levels of anxiety saw others melt away.

Like I mentioned about deep programming, imagine someone who is quite controlling then finding OCD comes along. They are going to have very intense obsessions and/or compulsions.

I strongly suspect reassurance seekers are more likely to do that outside of their anxiety. I'm more avoidant and I didn't have issues with reassurance seeking.

I think this because managing staff showed me how some people need more support than others. Some lack confidence and need a backup to say they are correct. Some needed 'stroking', which we coined, because it was more about ego or feeling good than reassurance or relief.

Take someone lacking in confidence, give them HA and is it any wonder they struggle so much asking for reassurance? (Struggle to ask and/or struggle to stop asking). Now take someone who always liked the attention, the buzz of others saying well done, and give them HA. They still suffer anxiety but are they having to battle other faulty programming?

[NoraB]

I think this because managing staff showed me how some people need more support than others. Some lack confidence and need a backup to say they are correct. Some needed 'stroking', which we coined, because it was more about ego or feeling good than reassurance or relief.

Hubs is a manager and says the same thing whereas I tend to treat people the same, regardless. I'd make a really shit manager.

I recently suggested that someone to lose their avatar and username because it's a visual reminder of what they 'allegedly' don't want to be, but maybe that person is someone who needs to be 'stroked'? That said, it seems to be the case that some people actually want to be the way they are with HA because it serves them to do so. All I know is how badly I wanted out of that particular hell hole and I struggle to comprehend why everybody isn't like me? But then, that's been a lifelong issue.

Autism & OCD is a lot more complex because autism makes everything more complex. I tried to work out when the checking started and I think it was when I moved in with my boyfriend when I was 16. Contamination kicked in when I was pregnant and going through an intensely stressful time in my marriage. I was scrubbing the house (and myself) all day long but it was never clean enough. Nor was I. My need for symmetry goes back as far as I can remember. I remember being told off for 'messing' with stuff at my nan's house, but I was rearranging things so that they were right for my brain- not that I could verbalise that. I just stood in the corner as I was told to do. I spent a lot of time in the corner tbh - but without understanding why I was there. Best 'punishment' was being sent to my room. You show me an autistic kid who doesn't love being in their bedroom?

Mum: Go to your room madam and think about what you've done!

Me:

Maybe it's the case that the checking is OCD but the rearranging/symmetry is autism? Only, making things symmetrical calms me down - whereas my checking goes the other way. Some days I shout at myself when I'm going upstairs for the 5th time - even after holding a plug in my hand to let my brain know it's been removed. If I get distracted during the routine, I have to do it all again.

[Carys]

Some days I shout at myself when I'm going upstairs for the 5th time - even after holding a plug in my hand to let my brain know it's been removed. If I get distracted

This could be me writing that !!!!

[pulisa]

My daughter arranged stuff from the word go..Especially lining things up but the symmetry thing started later when her OCD and hair pulling took off at 10. The Maudsley were very clear that she has a dual diagnosis and that her rituals weren't associated with her ASD but just made things more rigid.

My son used to line up toy washing machines (his thing) and I had to carry 4 of these things around with me..even on the train so I got a lot of funny looks! He always liked the look of lines and circles (washing machine drum/ Captain Scarlet spectrum symbol) but I saw this as ASD.

It's a complicated business..

[pulisa]

This could be me writing that !!!!

Me too... I hate plugs and switches!

[NoraB]

My son used to line up toy washing machines (his thing) and I had to carry 4 of these things around with me..even on the train so I got a lot of funny looks! He always liked the look of lines and circles (washing machine drum/ Captain Scarlet spectrum symbol) but I saw this as ASD.

It's a complicated business..

My son did the lining things up. Then he had a thing about numbers. It took us forever to get to nursery as we had to read out door numbers and car registrations - anything with a number on it! All his drawings at nursery had numbers on...