What works ?

Hi, I'm 31 and have a pressure job in banking. I have always coped well with everything that has been thrown at me and am regarded as a very laid back person or 'cool as a cucumber' as one senior manager described me in a moment of extreme stress. My problem started a year ago when I had to give a small presentation to a small team in a private office. I hadn't eaten that morning and hadn't slept well due to the neighbours having work done through the night. I was slightly nervous about my presentation but it wasn't a life or death scenario, just a friendly update on what I was working on. Nothing mattered with the outcome and I could have skipped it and no one would have cared. I started the presentation and a few minutes into the presentation I lost my words, they just would not come. the words I was looking for was 'alpha characters' but I just couldn't think. Then I was out cold, I felt like I'd been suddenly been put to sleep and woke up with someone propping me up telling me I'd passed out. I put this down to tiredness and lack of breakfast and the hospital concurred.
2 weeks later I was in a similar team meeting and had to give a 30 second update on how far I'd got with my project, whilst waiting my turn I felt dizzy, sweaty and experienced pins and needles in my hands. I passed out again when it was my turn.
8 months on from that occasion I passed out at a funeral and then the other symptoms started. I get the dizzy feeling and sweats in any waiting scenario. Restaurants, supermarkets, pubs, any time I have to wait my turn. I also get the same in the cinema or any time it's quiet and I'm with a lot of people.
I think it's the fear of passing out rather than fear of the situation itself.
Now I do not attend meetings, avoid funerals, weddings, christenings etc and am not sure how to go about curing this. Ideally I'd have some pills that I could take when I feel the symptoms occurring so that I can get back to being me again. However I do not know what works, what doesn't and trawling through the internet there seems to be a lot of bad advice and attempts to part me with my money for miracle cures. I've also contemplated hypnotherapy but am not sure if this will work either. Even temporary cures would be better than no cuire which is what I have now.

I get very stressed when I have to speak in meetings, I've never liked it even at uni and now I'm a jibbering wreck before I go in! I think the most important thing to do is stop avoiding situations when you think you may faint, that behaviour is making it worse. Perhaps go and see your GP, he may want to give you anti-anxiety meds and you could be referred to a therapist who can do some CBT type work with you to change your negative thinking and behaviour.

You're in the right place to get help here as well!

Take care,
Roz

'All I want is to be normally insane' Marlon Brando

The weird thing is I've never been bothered by these types of situations before. I know the avoidance behaviour is exaserbating the situation but my fainting episodes cause quite a stir and I don't want to take the limelight off people in weddings and funerals etc as they are one shot deals so if I screw it up for everyone then there is no re-run. I have started going to meetings again and find it a help if I have a bottle of water with me and sip it throughout but again this is avoiding the core problem. All my local GP has told me is to concentrate on my breathing which I do but still get dizzy and faint.

Hi MJG

Welcome to the forum. It seems that you fainted a couple of times and now it is the fear of fainting which is bringing on the panic attacks.

Have you had any treatment from your doctor? You could ask for a referral for CBT or similar solution focused therapy.

Medication is helpful for some people and if this is something you want to conside, your doctor would be able to advise you on this.

7/11 breathing (breathing in for a count of 7 and out for a count of 11) helps with the symptoms of hyperventilation, one of the symptoms of which is dizziness.

Have a read of the information in the First Steps.



Karen



It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.

Welcome aboard!! :D

"If life were simple, word would have got around"

MJG

What you are experiencing is through hyperventilation your blood gases are out of kilter.

When you breathe faster than usual, you are taking in too much oxygen and the balance between the cardon dioxide and oxygen gets upset and a faint is the bodys way of rectifying it, gets you horisontal and it regulates the breathing then for you and gets the balance right again.

Things you can do include self regulating your breathing:

Some people can master breathing slower and trying the 7/11 breathing that Karen mentions- the counts don't actually matter as you could just count faster.. what matters most is that its slow and controlled and the out breath is fractionally longer than the in breath.

Others find that its easier to hold your breath for a few moments both between breaths and once you've got a breath in.

Additionally you can cup your hands over your mouth and breathe through those as if it were very cold.

You might want to try getting some rescue remedy in your water bottle to sip.

Eat regularly and properly and always before an event however nervous you may feel.

Try to set up a 'informal' testing ground for these breathing exercises asap so you can get a handle on them in a helpful setting and break this cycle. Once you have shown yourself you can manage, it will get easier each time.

How Do You Do The Breathing
Breathing.. wow
Breathing Techniques
CONTROLLED BREATHING
Working to get better, have a few Q's to ask...

Rescue Remedy - Help needed
rescue remedy
Bach Rescue remedy Experience





Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

Hi

Welcome to NMP! sorry to hear about your dizziness, I get very dizzy and have had what is called blackout sensations which are awful. I agree with what meg has told you and would take her advise on the deep breathing because it really does work

I hope this start to improve soon and wish you all the luck


Take care

Sue with 5

scknight

Yes, welcome MJG,

I think you have received some sound advice here already.

Follow that, see your doc, and I'm sure you'll benefit greatly.

Cheers,

Ray

And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers

I was sent to a specialist by my GP to ensure it wasn't anything sinister. The neurologist made me hyperventilate with oxygen to see if the sensations were the same as when I pass out, which they were. He then brought me back with breathing exercises and adjusting the gasses, I guess to a more carbon dioxide mix. He told me that I am a very fast natural breather of 18 a minute rather than the usual 13 and I have a sensitvity to extra breathing, so it would only take 3 extra breaths to make me feel the sensations. He said that I probably won't even notice myself breathing 3 extra breaths in a minute so that's why the sensations are a surprise when they come. The advice was to breathe slower. This doesn't really help much as I feel I need to deal with the initial anxiety that is causing me to breathe faster.
It's a viscious circle really, I get anxious worrying about passing out and that makes me feel like I'm going to !!!

I've tried the holding my breath technique and although it stops the feelings of dizziness slightly, the anxious feeling does not go away and so my breathing quickens again. It seems more like dealing with the symptoms rather than the cause.

My name is Mark by the way, I didn't have a clue what to put as my sign on name so just put my initials!

Hi Mark

Welcome to the site, you've come t the right place.

Have you tried any relaxation techniques?
I find it very hard to relax but found that listening to a relaxation CD was very beneficial, I bought Complete Relaxation by Glenn Harold which helped me to learn to breathe properly.

Take care

Elaine x

I've got Paul McKenna's sleep like a log hypnotherapy cd but no proper relaxation cd's. There is so much on the internet that you can buy, it's hard to know what is good and what is just an attempt to part you with your money.

There is a local hypnotherapist that I might give a go, has anyone tried this ? I'm a bit sceptical.

Mark

**This doesn't really help much as I feel I need to deal with the initial anxiety that is causing me to breathe faster.**

*the anxious feeling does not go away and so my breathing quickens again*

Isn't this anxiety the fear that you might/will pass out ?

If so then taking the time to learn and practice the breathing techniques so you get much more confident in being able to control it all the time will be addressing the underlying issues.

Seems like you need to perservere and practice the breathing a bit more and get proof that it will work..
If you're struggling to do it alone book a 1:1 session with a yoga/meditation/ Tai Chi teacher and ask to just learn the various different techniques.



Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

Very true. A friend of mine is studying relaxation and massage and has me as a guinee pig for her therapies, the theory being if she can lower my anxiety then she is doing the right things. I guess the main fear is of passing out which, true can be helped with breathing techniques but I get anxious at times of waiting, meetings and public situations which I never used to. Back to that viscious circle again !
Thanks for all the advice by the way, I am taking it all in and will try anything to get back to being myself again. I have found that the things that help best so far are distracting myself (not ideal in meetings) walking (again not ideal in meetings) oddly playing with my hair (I look like I've got nits or something when in a meeting continually scratching my head !!!) and having a drink of water handy.
I have tried rescue remedy but found it not to have much effect. I play sootball 4 times a week, don't drink or smoke, eat fairly healthily not to excess and physically am in superb shape. I have bought a tai chi dvd but as yet have not had the patience with it. (suddenly breaking into qi gong sitting postures on a meeting is not ideal either ! )

Hi Mark,
i'm glad to see you have joined a site that offers great support and advice.
If only we could go to our doctors and say "i need some help as i'm suffering from a vicious circle" because as you have said that's exactly the problem, when something out of the blue happenes that frightens us or makes us a little edgy then we dread it happening again and so the circle begins.
Adrenalin is there to help prepare us for anything frightening, so when you fear fainting the adrenalin kicks in to prepare the body, when the brain then realises you don't need this adrenalin because you are not in a life threatening situation the adrenalin is still in the body and needs to wear off, adrenalin has all sort of side effects of its own, repeated frightening episodes only create the body to kick start adrenalin again and so on.
But remember nothing sinister is happening, just an old frightening thought that will linger and linger untill you finaly say, OK thought come on do your worse, don't be affraid of a thought it can't do you any harm, by asking the thought to come you are already making it less frightening as you are prepared to accept that it is only a thought, if you can learn to accept that it is only a thought it will become less likely to frighten you and in turn will be less likely to make you feel dizzy and hyperventilate.
I hope the advice here helps from everyone, just knowing your not alone should tell you something of how thoughts and fear can rule peoples lives, i compare it to trying anything for the first time, driving, flying anything that awakens the nervous system and puts it on alert is scarey, but not dangerous, try the breathing trust me it works i suffered the same way for many many years but persevered with the breathing and sought advice here and it helped me loads.

Good god i can't half go on please excuse the long reply.

Take care
Sharon

Sharon, you just made me laugh out loud at work. I'm getting weird looks now ! Funnily enough I was just phoning my GP for a follow up appointment to my neurologist although not for a cure to a 'viscious circle' !!.
I have a wedding to go to this weekend so I'll put the breathing to the test at that. I also have the dentist coming up for which I'm phobic due to a bad experience with a rookie dentist and too much anasthetic I have diazapan?? to take for that so it shouldn't be a problem.
Could you recommend any herbal remedies that I could use as a back up for this saturday's wedding? Maybe I could take one of the pills for my dental phobia to get me through it? Or is diazapan like a muscle relaxant ? I'm lost when it comes to prescription drugs !
Thanks again for all the advice and help.

Hi Mark
the diazepam would help at the wedding it will help you relax, so maybe if you think it will be too hard then you could use it, but only with a doctors advice.....
I myself have found propanalol the most effective non addictive prescription drug, i have a dreadful fear of pills so i won't take anything, but due to an overactive thyroid problem years ago i was put on propanalol for the thyroid problem, only to discover years later that it is OFTEN prescribed for anxiety, it does help calm the nervous system as it is a beta blocker. it helped me alot and if anyone asks me the best treatment then thats what i'd recomend, of course you have to get it from your GP but GP's know only too well these days the effects of stress and panic disorder, alot of GP's suffer as you can imagine.
I think if you make an appointment and explain that you are feeling the way you are and ask if it would be possible to try propanalol you might find it very helpful.
My one other bit of advice would be to stay away from miracle cures offered over the internet, magazines etc................the cure is within you yourself, we only have one mind the one that scares us is the one that cures us .....we just have to learn to think differently.

Hope your day gets brighter, if not just think about asking the doc for a cure for your vicious circle[:I]

Sharon

Would Propanalol be ok to take as I drive a fair distance each day and play a lot of sport?
Sorry for the barrage of questions !

That's fine. Propanolol doesn't affect concentration, etc. :D

"If life were simple, word would have got around"

Sorry, another question. What is CBT? I thought that was to do with a motorbike test !!!

There is lots of information about it on the home pages.

Just press Home at the top left of this page and then the therapy page .


Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

Thanks, I'm up to speed now. I'll give anything a try once so maybe one of the therapies will work for me.
Reading through it all, they all have a common theme, learning to relax when in an anxious situation. I think this is my core problem, I am anxious about passing out, when I pass out it's a very similar feeling to falling asleep. So when I'm in an anxious situation I tell myself to not relax or 'let go' or I will pass out again. Of course this is causing more anxiety and sets myself up for an internal tightrope of me trying not to relax but also trying not to be dizzy and anxious.
The human mind is a strange thing isn't it !

Propanolol is fine for driving.

It slows and steadies the heart beat so it may restrict you a bit in the amount of exertion you feel able to do in your sport, you may get tired quicker than usual.

Discuss this with your doctor if you want to consider going down this route.

Letting go .... may involve allowing your breathing to do its own thing whereas you need to regulate this but relaxing into it mentally and muscularly would help you.

I took up sighing and yawning both of which allow long exit breaths and induce relaxation. Fine for the car but not so fine for work and functions .




Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

I received a cd in the post yesterday from uncommon Knowledge, half of it was expalining about panic attacks which was very informative and explained a lot, the second half was hypnotherapy based. I have to say the hyprnotherapy part was not very good, most of it was blank spaces on the cd and the rest was just slow talking. I'm a big believer in hypnosis but can't recommend this particular cd, especially at it's £18.95 price !

That is really very expensive for 1 CD.

Can you send it back for a refund ?

Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

I'll have to put it down to experience this time, I don't believe you can get a refund or people would just copy the cd and send it back. Is there a list of cd's on this site or elsewhere that is rated by actual sufferers ? I don't want to get stung again.

Right, so I went to the wedding, however backed out of sitting in the service part for fear of passsing out and ruining one of my best mates biggest days. I took the diazapan and found it made no difference whatsoever to my relaxation levels. When the ceremony time was nearing my vision blurred and I felt my fingers tingling which is usually the first signs I get. Add to this that they wouldbn't let me take my bottle of water into the room (if I sip water I usually feel a bit more relaxed) So I sat in the bar for the ceremony. This was only 20 minutes however and I joined in with the rest of the day. I tried the breathing technique when the speeches were going on and although I still felt the urge to walk out, I did hold it together for the duration which was good as the speeches were really good although a little long !
I am pretty sure that my mate had no idea that I didn't watch the ceremony and no-one else noticed for certain.

When I got home I had an answerphone message, another wedding coming up in March. At least I've got a target to aim for now. I also have a huge interview coming up, could be a very interesting interview if I don't get some form of medical help !

Classic hyperventilation signs-

Well done for managing the long speeches- possibly longer than the ceremony but a more informal setting which made it easier.

How much diazepam ?, although you would be better off learning the breathing which would get you through any event.

Can you drum up a few less important meetings before your interview so you can practice a bit..



Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

I took 2mg when I got up about 9am and another 2mg at an hour before the ceremony. They are very old though as I got them for dental phobia about 7 years ago !

I finally have a doctors appointment this friday where I can discuss all this with my GP in the 10 minutes allotted time, I'll have to talk fast !

The anxiety I get is entirely due to me thinking I'll ruin something that can't be redone, so maybe I'll be ok in an interview situation as the only person I can let down is myself.

When I got the blurred vision and tingling hands I checked my breathing and heart rate. My heart was beating faster than usual but my breathing seemed normal.

Diazepam loses potency if out of date.

Take some bullet points with you so you have a prompt of the main points you wnat to cover and don't leave till you've covered them.

Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

I don't interview well really, I tent to joke a lot and chat rather than be professional and consice, the job I'm going for is going to be a test of my nerves as its a job that requires lots of meetings and 1-2-1's. My old self would have breezed it. Thats what makes this whole ordeal frustrating.
I'm going to push myself for it though as it means an extra 10 grand a year and 7 more days holiday which should relieve a lot of financial stress I'm in and hopefully this will ease my anxieties....

Sorry to hear about your dizzy spells,keep your gin up m8, what i do when i get them is lower my head,and if possable get a warm drink.

Hi Mark
well done on getting through the wedding situation :o), i'm sure going for the interveiw will go fine, just remember it's a visious circle and they never harmed anyone ;o), make sure you ask the doc about the propanolol, they were a great help to me and i have suffered very similar to you.

take care
sharon xx

Is propanalol a drug that you have to take daily or is it one that you can just take for occasions when you know you will be in an anxious situation ?

Hi Mark
Propanolol is a drug that you are useualy perscribed to take every day for a period of time, but it isn't a mind altering drug, it just slows the rate of the heart and lessens anxiety, i liked taking it because it does actualy work and has no side effects, or very little anyway, i have taken it on and off for years it realy did help, although i do know it isn't suitable for people who suffer from asthma.
It comes in various strengths 10mg 40mg and 80mg, and now is also available as one does slow release.

Hope this helps
sharon

Been to the docs and she has given me some beta blockers to take on days when I have interviews or meetings. I only have a very limited supply though so have also been refered for CBT. I feel better just knowing I'm on the road to recovery..... One question though, could diet cause all this? mine is shocking lately-fast food and junk...